President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said on Thursday (27), in an interview with Globo, that his former chief of staff Marco Aurélio Santana Ribeiro, known as Marcola, was wrong to ask lobbyist Roberta Luchsinger for money. In the sit-down with journalists Renata Vasconcellos and César Tralli on Jornal Nacional, Globo's flagship newscast, the reelection candidate also said his son Fábio Luiz Lula da Silva, known as Lulinha, will pay like any citizen if he committed wrongdoing, and defended "taking back territory" now controlled by organized crime, according to G1.

The Marcola case

"It is not adequate, it is totally wrong. And Marcola knows the mistake he made, because that is not the role of a chief of staff," Lula said of the lobbyist's payments to his former aide. According to G1, the president acknowledged that the episode "generates distrust" and drags suspicion into the Planalto Palace, the seat of Brazil's presidency.

According to CNN Brasil, Lula said he believes, for now, the loan version: "He said he took out a 249,000-real loan, that is what is in the press, only he knows the truth. When there is a confrontation hearing between the two, we will know whether there was a loan or not. For now, I believe he asked for a loan." He added: "Now it is this: he made the mistake, he will pay for the mistake. He was a person I trusted completely."

The Lulinha case

The Federal Police are investigating Lulinha and the lobbyist on suspicion of corruption and influence peddling, in inquiries before the Supreme Court, according to CNN Brasil. Asked about it, Lula said he will not interfere: "I am not a prosecutor, I am not a police investigator, I am not a judge. If Fábio committed any wrongdoing, he will have to pay like any Brazilian citizen." He added: "I will not remove any Federal Police investigator, I will not make any move for my son. There will not be a millimeter of movement from the Presidency to protect my son."

Lula called the accusations against his son "conjecture" and compared the case to what he himself faced in the Lava Jato (Car Wash) operation, which put him in prison before his convictions were overturned. "He knows that Marisa died because of the false accusation made against me in Lava Jato. So he had an obligation not to have made the mistake," he said, referring to former first lady Marisa Letícia, who died in 2017.

The president also called Roberta Luchsinger a "con artist" when commenting on the messages obtained by the Federal Police, and denied knowing her: "I do not know this woman, this woman was never close to me." About the message in which the lobbyist said Lula offered her a government post, he shot back with irony: "The only thing missing was her saying I offered her the Defense Ministry, the command of the Navy and the Air Force." For Lula, phone conversations alone do not prove a crime: "What we need to know is this: did this woman manage to release the money she said she was after? Is there proof of public money? Because that is where the crime is."

Organized crime

According to G1, Lula also spoke about the growth of organized crime in Brazil over recent decades and said he wants to "take back territory" controlled by criminals. The interview was part of a Jornal Nacional series with the six best-placed candidates in the August 14 Quaest poll.

The series continues on Friday (28) with Senator Flávio Bolsonaro, Lula's main rival in the race, and ends on Saturday (29) with Augusto Cury. The Federal Police investigations into the lobbyist, Lulinha and the payments to Marcola remain open at the Supreme Court, with no deadline announced for completion.